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User talk:Athrun Feya/Build:Team - Rathway
should i throw it in trial? :o - AthrunFeya - 21:23, February 10, 2010 (UTC) :tbh, any build that requires an imbagon player shouldn't be in the buildspace because it's not general at all. but that's just me -- Star talk 21:26, February 10, 2010 (UTC) ::racway seems to only be there because of the people who posted it =/ - AthrunFeya - 21:42, February 10, 2010 (UTC) :::I'm not a fan. It pretty much only works with an imbagon or d-slash warrior -- Star talk 10:13, February 12, 2010 (UTC) ::::It became popular because it was the first build to kill mallyx hardmode, and it worked in doa pretty much better/faster than everything else at the time. Filling in the party bars with stuff that synergized with the imbagon fit rather well, and since physicals have no trouble ever killing anything, it did its job (I'm still not sure if all these people who say 6 paragons kill things too slowly are playing the same guild wars I am, it was faster than everything outside a full cry of pain tank build and still usually is). ::::The only real problem I see is lack of daze. Stunning Strike is an amazing elite, far more worthwhile for hardmode bosses than signet of spirits. (Stunning is one of the few things that can actually maintain daze on hardmode bosses). In addition, though, I think you're overdoing the point of the build. The melee can get a few buffs, sure, but devoting two full characters to doing it will hurt the overall damage in the long run. 2 paragons doesn't cut it, it's not enough to reap the rewards of the buffers. Also, mark of pain is trash, if the player is picking targets like he should be, things will die far too quickly for the hex to be worth its spot on the bar. Barbs is only passable if the hero gets a HCT proc. I favor a N/Rt to combine the roles of splinter and orders bitch (oov > oop obv), it has no energy troubles and frees up a spot to take more damage (if it's a person, they can play melee physical, if it's a hero, another paragon is perfectly fine). ::::mark of pain and barbs are excellent for minion builds, where the minions do next to no damage on their own, but the constant triggering of hexes blows the face off mobs. Paragons have lethal damage on their own, splinter and orders are well enough to make them fast, precise killing machines. Because of this, the called/pinged target usually drops in 1-3 seconds, not 7-8 or however long it would take the hex to start dealing a respectable amount of damage. Basically, the hex itself is too slow for a paraway build played properly; if you're wanding something long enough for barbs to deal serious damage to it, something is very wrong with the way the build is being played. -Auron 15:09, May 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::aah, before blood skills were updated there simply weren't enough skills to fill out the ER build properly without putting in Barbs etc. Now there is I probably should update (and anyone who knows me knows im not the greatest fan on either barbs or mop) - ''Athrun''[[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 15:55, May 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::Also, my personal preference is towards always having a highly specced splinter weapon around (the rest of the rit skills are pretty arbitrary). You could with this build, potentially, give the rit a spear and then use Anthem of Envy (which triggers on spirits too so it's pretty nice). :::::Not sure about Stunning. I vanquished a lot in the past with Technobabble (and a barrage hero!) and found that provided ''sufficient daze (and it does indirectly work on bosses). - ''Athrun''[[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 17:01, May 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Stunning is an elite that frees you up a PvE skill, if you want to think of it that way. (It's vastly superior to technobabble, but we'll ignore that for the sake of argument.) That means you get to bring a more awesome PvE skill than Technobabble, such as ymlad/BH/BuH/ward honor. If you're going to force an imbagon player, that PvE slot is very valuable (as there's only so many PvE skills you can fit on an imbagon before you run into issues). ::::::The other question is, what are you going to bring instead of SS? Cruel Spear is nice, but it's just damage. DA and SoR are both a bit over the top with that much defense. Expel and Empathic are both options, but fulfill completely different roles. ::::::Also, why is the sos hero being taken over a commandagon? Bladeturn, AoW, and FB are all nice, but they're not the reason you take a commandagon. -- Armond Warblade 05:45, May 12, 2010 (UTC) :::::::that last point goes back to what i said about stunning strike really. especially with heroes, you can't really guarantee it'll land in the right places. The rit is there purely for a highly specced splinter weapon - the rest of the skills are arbitrary - though if you gave it a spear and took Anthem of Envy there's some interesting synergy there with the spirits. - [[User:Athrun Feya|''Athrun]][[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 07:53, May 12, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::I skipped the splinter line. Heroes should be putting SS on the targets you're calling, so I don't see what the problem is there. That said, if you're not going to bring another human and three heroes, there are worse things you could leave behind than a high spec splinter (like SS, for example). -- Armond Warblade 04:48, May 13, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::: If you're calling targets, the hero is putting SS on an enemy that's going to die in about 3 seconds. Life Guardian 04:49, May 13, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::::Rather the guy be dazed and dead than not dazed and with no one attacking him while he prots the other baddies. The AI does try to save itself when you spike it, you know, and heroes aren't humans. -- Armond Warblade 05:16, May 13, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::::I should read the full page before making assumptions on acronyms. Life Guardian 05:31, May 13, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::the point is while you daze that single foe, every single foe around it is still free to do as it pleases, so i don't see it as an overly effective skill (especially if you consider there's often multiple numbers of a certain type of enemy per mob. For example, you'll shut-down one Wind Rider but then just get Soothing Images cast on you from one of the four standing next to it). Although it's nice to have, it is even debatable whether daze is actually necessary since everyone'll already be running around with +100 armor and can quite easily soak up damage from spells anyway (you could argue that it's to reduce number of hexes, conds, etc, but with multiple enemies and the build's ability to take some ridiculously good hex/condition removal, I don't see this as a defining cause for needing SS). :::::::::Splinter is there to try and get a bit of decent AoE damage out the team build. You could argue having AoE isn't necessary and you would be correct; it isn't strictly ''needed but from what I, and others, see it is a damn sight more useful than an occasionally dazed foe. - ''Athrun''[[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya'']] - 09:53, May 13, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::::Daze is the single most powerful condition in the game, and stunning is tenfold more powerful than signet of spirits no matter how you look at it. This is also aside from the fact that spears do huge damage by autoattacking. ::::::::::Stunning Strike isn't for a single wind rider in a mob of wind riders (which is an atrociously bad example, because wind riders are not a threat to any but the worst players). It's for the single woh boss that is keeping everything around it alive. It's for the single hexer in a group of enemies, the mob with a res spell, or anything at all that you want never to get a spell off. Stunning Strike recharges in 3/4 seconds, sometimes less with dark fury up. That means you can throw it everywhere you want. I have it bound to a key so I can force my para hero to use it on my target whenever I want it used (which is often). The places where it's useful far outnumber the places where it's not, so I won't even be bothered with writing a complete list. Every caster in the game you want to stop from playing Guild Wars, you can do it with Stunning better than any other elite in any other build (it's even better than pblock, not that pblock is ever run, but daze affects monster spells whereas pblock does not!). ::::::::::This is part of the reason paragons kill so quickly. With a necro-damage build (or any build at all, really) you have to kill through the healers' healing, which isn't hard but it wastes time. All of the HP healed must be matched in damage, which just makes killing shit take longer than it needs to. Paragons hit the healer with stunning a couple of seconds into the start of the fight, and he doesn't get a heal off for the rest of it. If there is no healer, the water ele or curse necro is rendered completely useless. If there is a big mob of casters, stunning can be chain applied to the most important ones, causing all of their skills to fail until the mob is dead. ::::::::::It's every bit as offensive as it is defensive. It's not just to protect the party against searing flames bosses, it's also great for cutting down mobs with heavy healers before they have a chance to do any of it. Stunning Strike, unlike most skills, scales perfectly in effectiveness as player skill increases - if the player is able to micro stunning on key targets constantly, it is the cornerstone of the build's lethality. If the player relies on the hero putting stunning on key targets by itself, the player will be sorely disappointed. Heroes can't think, after all. The hero is good at maintaining daze once it's applied, but that's it - you have to pick his targets for him. -Auron 03:18, May 17, 2010 (UTC)